More Ballad Extraction: Two Sisters

[kniteracy]

I've been familiar with "Two Sisters" for a long time, and of course I love all the English versions with harps and stuff, but I fell in love with a "Wind and Rain" version I heard on an Armstrong Family CD years ago, and that's the version that stayed with me.

I don't particularly like "Bonny Swans" versions, although bardling sand me a "Binnorie" one that I liked very much.

The "Wind and Rain" version I learned so long ago was very short, and I knew there must be a little more to it. Now, some Appalachian versions add a tag where the miller/fellow who builds the instrument from her bones is hanged for her murder, and some add a version where the sister is executed because she is accused by the sister, but I'm not sure I like that ending. But it can be evocative when you add a little imagery.

Anyway, here's the version I'm working on learning:


Two Sisters/The Wind and the Rain

There were two sisters of a valley town
Oh the wind and the rain
One was fair and the other was brown
Oh the dreadful wind and rain

And they both had love of the miller’s son
Oh...
But he was fond of the fairer one
Oh...

So she pushed her into the river to drown
And watched her as she floated down

She floated ‘til she came to the miller’s pond
Dead on the water like a golden swan

And she came to rest on the river’s side
And her bones are washed by the rolling tide

Then along the road came a fiddler fair
And found her bones just a lying there

So he made a fiddle peg of her long finger-bone
He middle a fiddle peg of her long finger-bone

He strung his fiddle bow with her long yellow hair
He strung his fiddle bow with her long yellow hair

And he made a fiddle fiddle of her breastbone
He made a fiddle fiddle of her breastbone

But the only tune that the fiddle would play
The only tune that the fiddle would play

(almost entirely from the singing of Gillian Welch, from one of the Songcatcher CDs)

Comments

[catalana.livejournal.com]

So she pushed her into the river to drown

Which sister pushed the other? Or did one of the sisters drown herself? I think it's the golden-haired girl who dies, but I'm not entirely sure.

[telynor.livejournal.com]

The brown one, the darker one who felt sleighted, would have been the push-er. :)

[catalana.livejournal.com]

Ah-ha! You have to watch out for those evil brunettes. Of course, I think of myself as a brunette, so I'm allowed to say this. *grin*

[dyddgu.livejournal.com]

Ah, I know the sisters one as The Cruel Sister. Ooh, now I have a Pentangle earworm!

Thought of you on Sunday, as knirirr's stepdad took to telling tales of his visits to CSH spanning a good 40-odd years :-)

[telynor.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've heard Cruel Sister versions before.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

Ah, very similar I believe to the Martin Carthy one we stole from... er... used for our arrangment on dulcimer and guitar. (which we REALLY need to work up again now that I have the wolf darn it!)

I miss you. Foo.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

What a doof I am... I was searching the web in vain for lyrics to "Bows of London" (Carthy's version) until I realized (duh) I have the lyrics.

( doubtless you already have them)
(sorry if I missed any of our arrangment performance notes, I tried to delete them).

I can't *wait* to hear you do this. It's always been a favorite ballad of mine. You wouldn't think I have such a gory imagination would you but... there it is. ;-)

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

Bows of London
trad. (Martin Carthy)

There were two little sisters a- walking alone, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Two little sisters a- walking alone, by the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

And the eldest pushed her sister in, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Pushed her sister into the stream, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

Oh she pushed her in and she watched her drown, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Watched her body floating down, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

Oh she floated up and she floated down, Ay, the gay and the grinding,
Floats till she comes to the miller’s down By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

But out and come the miller’s son, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
“Father dear, here swims a swan By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.”

Oh they laid her out on the bank to die/dry, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Fool with a fiddle come a’ riding by, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

And he took some strands of her long yellow hair Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Made some strings from her long yellow hair, by the bonny bonny bows of London.

And he made fiddle pegs from her long finger bone, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Made fiddle pegs from her long finger bone, by the bonny bonny bows of London.

And he made a fiddle out of her breast bone, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Sound would pierce a heart of stone, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.
But the only tune that the fiddle would play was Oh the bows of London.
The only tune the fiddle would play was The Bonny Bonny bows of London

So the fool’s gone away to the King’s High Hall, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
There was music, dancing and all, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

And he laid this fiddle all down on the stone, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Played so loud it played all alone, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.

It sang “yonder sits my father the king, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
Yonder sits my father the king, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.”

“And yonder sits my mother the queen, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
How she’ll weep at my burying, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.”

“And yonder she sits my sister Anne, Ay, the gay and the grinding.
She who drownded me in the stream, By the Bonny Bonny Bows of London.”

[tibicina.livejournal.com]

There's a short story retelling of the 'three sisters' version that I really love. I think it's by Vivian Vande Velde and called something like 'The Third Sister' or 'The Middle Sister', but I'm having trouble finding it, so I could be confused. (Not that I own a lot of retold fairytales/ballads/stories or anything... umm...)

[telynor.livejournal.com]

I don't know that story. I'll have to dig around for it. If you come up with the title for sure, can you let me know?

[telynor.livejournal.com]

...not that I'm obsessed with ballads or anything...

[tibicina.livejournal.com]

Well, I figured out why I was having such a hard time finding it. It would be because it's actually by Patricia C. Wrede... and she just calls it 'Cruel Sisters', though it's written from the third sister's perspective. It's in The Book of Enchantments. Not that I own a large number of story collections by various young adult authors that include retellings of classic fairytales and ballads. Now I'm trying to figure out why I keep thinking it's by Vivian Vande Velde... I think it's because it's darker than most of Wrede's work.

[roaming.livejournal.com]

I've got Clannad's stuck in my head, because it's such a "cheery" tune, which makes the text all the more "icky"!

There were two sisters side by side
Sing aye dum, sing aye day
There were two sisters side by side
The boys are born for me
There were two sisters side by side
The eldest for young johnny cried
I’ll be true unto my love
If he’ll be true to me

Johnny bought the youngest a gay gold ring...
sing aye dum etc
He never bought the eldest a single thing...
I'll be true unto my love if etc

Johnny bought the youngest a beaver hat...
The eldest never thought much of that...

As they were walking by the foamy brim...
The eldest pushed the youngest in...

Sister, oh sister give me thy hand...
And you can have johnny and all his land...

Sister I won’t give you my hand...
And I’ll have johnny and all his land...

So there she sank and away she swam...
Until she came to the miller’s dam...

Miller took away her gay gold ring...
And then he pushed her in again...

Miller he was hanged on the mountain head...
The eldest sister was boiled in lead...

[telynor.livejournal.com]

Yep-- I usually like the "I'll be true to my love" refrains. You find them in various ballads-- good excuse for vocal ornamentation. ;)

[mneme]

I actually like the tune of the Wind and Rain one (Cruel Sisters) better, but prefer the actual words of Binnorie (and have been known to try to force Binnorie into the Wind and Rain form, which isn't actually that difficult).

I mean...

He went into her father’s hall,
Binnorie, O Binnorie!
And there was the court assembled all.
By the bonny mill-dams of Binnorie.

He laid his harp upon a stane,
And straight it began to play by lane.

‘O yonder sits my father, the King,
And yonder sits my mother, the Queen;

‘And yonder stands my brother Hugh,
And by him my William, sweet and true.’

But the last tune that the harp play’d then—
Binnorie, O Binnorie!
Was, ‘Woe to my sister, false Helèn!’
By the bonny mill-dams of Binnorie.

Of course, the Cruel Sisters version is cut throughout --

[mneme]

Oops -- I was intending to finish that statment, but thought "why haven't I sent this yet?".

Of course, the Cruel Sisters version is cut throughout aside from the insturment-making scene -- with 11 stanzas to Binnorie's ~28, it kinda has to be. And the version I'm cribbing from above is definately shorter than the one I first learned -- for example, where it has "He courted the eldest with glove and ring, / But he lo’ed the youngest abune a’ thing.", what I remember also has, immediately after, "He courted the eldest with broach and knife / But the youngest he loved beyond all life."

Ah, there we are -- child #10, 30 verses, pretty much exactly as I remmeber it.


Mine in

[telynor.livejournal.com]

I tend not to like the long Scots versions of ballads, with the exception of things that really need their stories told in excruciating detail, like Tam Lin for example. First, to me many of these versions seem unsingable, not because they're long but because they're so many things cobbled together, and second because many of them are transcribed in Scots dialect, and being American and Southern, I don't have any desire or ability to sing in lowlands. I like to sing things in a way that feels natural to my voice, I guess, and long ballads in Scots dialect ain't it. ;)

[mneme]

It depends, for me. I do find that they'll run to unsingably wrong -- I mean, the 30 of Binnorie is pretty long as-is, but Hind Horn is well over 40, and Thomas the Rhymer (which also has lots and lots of more-or-less unnecessary verses; as you say, many things cobbled together) is also well over 30 IIRC.

OTOH, I do quite like the Binorrie ending -- unlike a lot of the middle bits, (like the quite-a-number-of-verses about the dead lady in the water), it flows nicely and has something resembling resolution.

I admit that I tend to simply modernize dialect when singing songs written in it where possible (ie, where it doesn't mess up the rhyme scheme).

[occams_pyramid]

Probably best not to try doing The geste of Robin Hood then :-)

[telynor.livejournal.com]

There's more than one "Wind and Rain" tune, just so you know, so you never know: there might be more than one "Binnorie" tune.

[mneme]

There probably is -- I've just not done that much research, and am not all that impressed by the tune I do know. Might be worth looking into.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I'm much more familiar with a version of this as...err...Cruel Sister, I think it's called, on a Pentagle album.

[adamselzer.livejournal.com]

Back in the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern days, we used to do about the least pretty version of the song imaginable, playing up the gore. It was practically an acoustic metal version.

[pdcawley.livejournal.com]

Not sure of the source of the one I half do:

There lived an old man by the Northern Sea
Bow me down
There lived an old man by the Northern Sea
Bow and balance to me
There lived an old man by the Northern Sea
And he had daughters one, two three
I'll be true to my love if my love'll be true to me

At Peter Bellamy's memorial day, Martin and Liza Carthy did a fabulous version called (I think) the Bonny Bows of London.

[telynor.livejournal.com]

There are "Bow and balance" versions all over as well. I've heard it suggested that the "Bow and balance" refrain is either a reference to songs like this being used as dance tunes, or perhaps to the idea of playparty singing them, where one person would begin and the ballad would travel from one singer to the next.

I'm willing to bet that Bonny Bows of London is related to Bow and Balance, but it could be just me.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

I'm always torn on this though, because I do love the idea of a harp made from her breastbone and I know that a harp could really "sing" by itself more easily than a fiddle could (or so I've been led to believe).

Plus, of course, you play harp! But maybe this will be a dulcimer piece?
I must say that I rather like the idea of the cruel sister getting her cumupance! >:-) (which is a bit implied in the Bows of London but not overtly stated).

Anyway - oh boy oh boy! Makes me want to get out my dulcimer again.

Hey, as a favor, are there any old ballads you particularly could hear me working up on dulcimer/voice? I'd love a new project. Just what I need at the start of a new semester.

[mneme]

Oh yes -- put a harp in a good wind, and it sings. Not exactly pretty -- more eerie...but then...

[telynor.livejournal.com]

While I appreciate the integrity of the harp story, I tend to like the tunes that go with the fiddle versions more, probably because they're more American and often Appalachian in cadence.

[telynor.livejournal.com]

It's not my favourite ballad, but I suspect you could kick the shit out of Annachie Gordon.

But with a dulcimer, let's see.... How about The False Knight on the Road? Look for the Maddy Prior version; I think it's on Summer Solstice, a CD I've unfortunately lost somewhere in the trail of history.

Oh where are you going said the knight on the road
I'm going to my school said the boy as he stood
As he stood, and he stood, and 'twere well that he stood
I'm going to my school, said the boy as he stood. etc.

A lot of ballads I'm not sure would be exactly suited for your voice, because your voice is too good. If that makes any sense. So you need to find something you can sing straight, with spare ornamentation and not a lot of frill, because that's where your voice sounds best. If that makes any sense.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

Big hugs and kisses! Thanks!
I have "False Knight on the Road" on a few things I think... let's see...
(I could swear I have Frankie Armstrong singing it but if I do it's LP and I haven't heard it in years so maybe that's wrong)

I have Steeleye Span doing False Knight on albums: "Marrowbones" and "Please to See the King" (not apropro here but can't help mentioning I also have a charming Neil Gaiman/Charles Vess illustrated version of it that ran in Dirty Linen, signed by Vess) ;-)

I have June Tabor doing Anachie Gordon on her album: "Always"

I've also always been fond of "Thomas the Rhymer" but think it may be overdone, and "Allison Gross/King Henry/etc". That one does tempt me. Doubtless I could find a lot of interesting versions of that.

I also have long meant to play around with Geordie because I want to add that one to my songs with strong female protagonists collection. (I particularly love the way that it is done on the Silly Sisters album.)

Thanks for the ideas.
Re: my voice... Hmm... I know what you mean about my voice being "too good" I suspect you mean "too trained". I'll never sound traditional, certainly not traditional appalachian. I like to think that I could take a ballad and make it my own though. One reason Lyle sucked me into early music so quickly was that I could do a nice straight tone without ornamentation and although through the years I've just naturally picked up various ornamentation styles I can still use them or not as tools pretty well I think. Probably what I'd do is try to pick up as many recorded versions of the ballad as I could and play around with mimicing them until something uniquely mine coalesces out of the mix. (that's typically how I approach a cover I guess).

How do YOU approach working on a ballad vocally?

[occams_pyramid]

Have you heard the story-telling version that Talis does?

[telynor.livejournal.com]

Of Two Sisters? Nope.

[occams_pyramid]

Much recommended. As would be expected, a rather different take on the tale.

/me prods tattercoats

[nw1.livejournal.com]

Hm. I used to do a version of this with Giants Dance. Unfortunately I can't remember the lyrics we used. Perhaps resourceress recalls them, as she was the lead singer for that one. I'll try to dig up a recording to transcribe as well.